Everything You Need to Run Your Complete Demo
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
All right, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the next episode here at Demo HQ Day. Very exciting day, talking about everything you need to run your complete demo operations for your company. We're going to be joined in just a second here by both Jamal and Chris, who are part of the session. So we are talking about building the AE (account executive) and SE (sales engineer) relationship in this session because when it comes to demos the AE/SE relationship is a dynamic partnership, just like a successful marriage. So a successful demo starts with a solid partnership based on trust and understanding. Yes, we're comparing the relationship between an AE and an SE to a marriage. But let's face it. You can kind of identify, probably, with both, Can't live with them can't live without them. So we're going to be taking you through some couples therapy. I mean some sales therapy. Now we're going to strengthen the relationship with 2 of the best gentlemen in the game. Jamal Reimer, is the founder of an incredible community called The Enterprise Sellers Community. And of course, Chris White from Tech Sales Advisors. I want to dive right into this because there's a lot to go into. And I think the way I want to frame this conversation, Jamal, is I'm going to start with you when we're talking about this because we've had this conversation before. A great demo is like a Broadway show. So how do you look at the demo experience like a Broadway show?
How Do You Look at a Demo Experience Like a Broadway Show?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
I'm an analogy, guy. I like to keep it simple and relatable to something we all know something about. I think the Broadway show is a great analogy for the entire sales cycle. So the context here is that my selling reality was always on the enterprise end. This means that ultimately when you're doing a real dog and pony show, the centerpiece of which can be the demo. There's a lot of folks that could show up right so there could you know, pre-Covid. You get 10 or 20 people in a room to have a fairly deep session, and again that the corner piece is the demo, and to make to pull something like that off requires a lot of practice in advance, a lot of choreography, and a lot of production. So I think the analogy is a great one, because, you know, you're gonna have an act, 1 act, 2 act, 3. You're gonna have to act. Scene One scene, 2, scene 3, and that partnership that the AEs and SEs have is a partnership, kind of like their co-directors of the whole show.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
I love that Chris. By the way, I love that t-shirt. It's pre-sales, not “please sales” that's a great one, Chris. Take me through your thoughts on this because you live in this world every single day. Why do we often have disconnects between sales engineers and account executives?
Why Do We Have Disconnects Between SE and AE?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
We've only got 45 min. Is that right? Where to start? I think it starts with one of the things that I like to talk about. We are fundamentally different. In some very fundamental ways. We have very different approaches to a meeting. We have different approaches to talking about solutions. We have different approaches, and how we want to engage with customers. We have different drivers. You know, one of the things I like to talk about, and Jamal I'll put you on the spot. What do sales professionals and AEs tend to fear most in the context of the deal and beyond the context of a deal or the context of a demo? What do they fear most?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
I mean, I've got a saying which kind of wraps it up for me. Enterprise sales are one of the only jobs where you could lose half a million dollars in commission with just one mistake.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
So what do they fear most? Losing the deal, as they should. It's their job. It's their livelihood. It's their responsibility, right? What do SEs fear most in the context of a deal, or in context of a demo? Losing credibility. Don't get me wrong. We want to close this deal as much as anybody. But this is our reputation on the line, right? It’s a totally different level. So, Nick, I'm coming back to your question about why is this such a challenge. I think it begins with the fact, which is, we are wired fundamentally differently, which means right out of the gate. We need to work hard to understand one another and avoid projecting motives on the actions we see, and the words we hear right and really work hard to bridge that gap. So that's the first thought that comes to mind.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Jamal, did you want to comment on that? Because I felt you landed that plane pretty well there, Mr. White. Usually the sales engineer, typically I'm painting with a broad brush, but typically, the sales engineers consider the trusted advisor. How can an AE leverage that fact to their advantage?
AE Leveraging SE as the Trusted Advisor
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
The best AEs are also deep in the business that they're selling into but oftentimes that's simply not the case. And the AE themselves, especially the higher they try to get. You know the closer you get to the larger deals, the higher up the chain you're going to be, and you can't always be the expert at everything, and so I like to always bring in others around me, who knows more or fill gaps in my own game, either about my product or about the business that we're selling into, and really great a SE's can do both. Sometimes you gotta sell to a bunch of industries you can't know them all. But sometimes, when you know an industry as well as the product. We could almost divide and conquer right where the AE takes on certain relationships or remains the point person with certain individuals, and gives the SE free rain. To go after this person, this person, this person, or to make those connections because they're a better fit, either technically or from an SME standpoint, or even from a personality standpoint, so I like to leverage my trusted SEs as real partners in the deal, and sometimes we're working something lockstep together, and other times its divide and conquer, and working with different personalities separately.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Nick, can I build on that? So I want to take it a step further. The sales engineer is sort of viewed as a trusted partner. It's an unfair disadvantage to sales professionals they are, and I'll even say we are guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of our prospects and customers. Right? Why? Because we're not sales right, we're sales engineers. We don't face quite that stigma. If I can use that term correctly. We are sort of given more the benefit of the doubt because we're the expert right, the technical expert. So we need to recognize that, you know, we're like the secret weapon on the sales team. But there's another thing that we can do. We can actually help our sales counterparts the “Jamal's” in the room and actually build credibility with our customers. There are certain things that we can say, or there are quote “softballs” that we can toss to our sales counterpart that gives them the opportunity to build credibility with the prospects and customers we're dealing with right? And for sure there are certain things that we need to avoid saying that make our sales counterparts look less credible. You know, individuals, that our prospects and customers may already be thinking. So Jamal, does that resonate with you?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
Yeah, I mean, it also goes to the level of preparation.
So there are going to be some things that the essay that that the Se. Knows cold. They're going to be other things that the a. Knows cold. It'd be great if they both knew all of it cold. And even though we're never going to get there, we can get close, and it's only going to happen if we spend the time to get both sides up and running. So from the AE perspective, the more we can give to our sc counterpart by saying, okay, here are the personalities who are gonna be in the room. Here's the political landscape. Here are some words that are absolute landmines. Here are things that have gone wrong. Here are things that have gone right. And the more that we can fill in all of this great context that's gonna go into the areas that the essay that that the SE. Goes into or not of examples that are given, etc., so the a. Can help the essay. Avoid a lot of landmines, and, you know, lay up a whole lot of allies.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
But that's my half of it, that that that's the part that I see things not to say people to be aware of their terminology, etc., and in reverse it's, it's my responsibility to to to make sure you understand. This is what I prepared. This is what I'm planning to cover. This is my approach. Right? Is there? Is there anything that that maybe you were expecting me to do that I haven't prepared, etc? You know we were talking. I think, Nick, you open it up as like this notion of the Broadway play right like you don't. Just you just show up on stage like that, I mean, I guess improv you can, right? But I mean there's a reason, you know. Habit Number 3 is to prepare. I mean it's, you know. Success in the demo is as much about what happens before the meeting as it is in front of the customer right? So it's an and to your point, Jamal it's a 2-way street, right? I mean. You need. You need to give me as much information as you have. And, by the way, that that you think is is valid for me to know. I don't need to know everything.
I just need to know those key things that will really sort of dictate how I might approach my sort of part of the meeting in reverse. I should never show up and do something that catches you by surprise, right? And if that happens, By the way, if that happens, we both have some ownership there, right?
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Yeah, for sure, that was great. And I really like how you hit that point. By the way, just going forward. If you do have a product, that growth product, we're calling that Improv. Now. Okay. So you know, I wanna hear both from both of you gentlemen on this. And obviously, we're gonna paint with a broad brush, because, understanding that the dynamic, the persona, and the product would change this. But ideally, who do you want to handle discovery, Jamal? Let's start with you. Should it be the AE, the sales engineer, or a combination of both? How do you look at that?
Who Handles Discovery?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
I don't really see the discovery as a discrete task. It's like a way of life. Discovery is a way of life, and so it should be happening all the time. I've been in situations where I run it or the Se. Runs it. I don't have a lot of religion about it, because it should be happening all the time. And I've through a lot of mistakes. I've grown the habit of including my SE in as many conversations as I can. So you know, there's a continuum right that the 2 extremes never invite him, and just tell him to show up and do a demo invite them to everything, and somewhere in between I'd be close, or to invite them to everything wherever it makes sense. So the way that I think of it is. if i'm gonna have a shot at asking some good questions and going deep in a certain area of the business, a certain area of the problem. Whatever. I want Shawn to be with me right? I want Jack to be with me so that they can hear it directly from the customer. And because they're gonna be able to ask, they're just another perspective. There is so much value to team selling, whether it's my manager or my Sc. Or somebody else on the team. It's great to have multiple team members in pretty much every meeting because you're gonna hear it different ways. You're gonna interpret what they say in different ways. You're gonna have different Follow-up questions. So the more your team sells. The more perspectives you're gonna have. So you're gonna have a more complete outcome and response, I think, hearing the different voices is really key.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Funny thing! But this weekend I went to an escape room with my daughter, and it was myself and 2 other adults, and we thought the 3 adults would be solving all the puzzles. But it was interesting, having her different perspective on things. And she actually, you know, came up with a bunch of ideas so little bit of an analogy. But I think that it's relevant to what you just said. Chris, Did you want to follow up on that?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Of course, the first thing that Jamal said was literally almost taken the words out of my mouth. Discovery is a process it's it's not a one-time event right so. And, by the way, as an SE, when does my discovery begin? The moment Jamal or my sales counterpart invites me into a conversation. Right. My discovery begins with my AE. Who are we talking to? What do we know? What are the stages? etc., etc. right? And then, when we do have the opportunity, and and and and from all of you, I love the fact that you there are 2 extremes. But this is something that I deal with virtually with all of my clients. Some of the I work with complained, because they're brought in too early, and they're like, I'm involved in every conversation, and I don't have the bandwidth, and the others complain about not being brought in early enough. Right? So it is a challenge for an ae to know like, when is the right time to bring in my sales counterpart right.
The other thing I'm inspired to share. And Nick, I don't. I don't even know if you've heard me talk about this, but when I talk to SE, the way I explain their role in the discovery is not analogous to a definition that I heard for IQ. A number of years ago. I'm. Going to briefly explain, Nick, you spent what a decade on cruise Ships right? I've never been on a cruise ship. Is it fair to say that you have a higher through-ship IQ? Than me. I would say. Yes, I think that's a very safe bet. Now, what does it mean, Folks that Nick has a higher cruise ship IQ than me? He and I could walk aboard a cruise ship together. Nick would see things that I don't. Even then they don't even hit my register the ability to make finer distinctions. That's the definition of IQ. So what is your role in the discovery of making finer distinctions about what the customers trying to achieve about how best to position the solution so that we can achieve the technical victory and ultimately a closed one, deal-making finer distinctions back to you, Nick?
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
I so what if we? How do I go back to that? I mean My gosh, goodness gracious, quick question! And this is from Sam. Let me toss this to you, Chris, and then I have another question for Jamal Handy. How do you handle objections from a discovery point of view I don't want to answer this question again. Let's get to the demo. How do you deal with that?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
I don't blame you for a second, and we, we'd be delighted to show you the demo, so that we don't worse Waste your time. Is it worth just spending a few more minutes? So we have a better understanding of what what you might be looking for. Or are you okay? Just jumping to the demo at the risk of it not being overly applicable.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Okay, that's great. Thank you very much.
Jamal - How do you look at using your sales engineering resources? Should they be pooled ideally? So you have a lot of different people looking at a lot of different things. Should you develop a one-on-one relationship with an account Executive, what are the best practices in your experience?
AE Using Their SE Resources
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
It's it's a great question. I've never been able to choose, so I've always had to just go with the flow, and that has tended to be. I can only speak to my own experience. There, there, there's a pool bench of resources sees plus others. They're always being distributed for use and engaged in different sales cycles 2 things tend to happen. One is just the availability and 2 is when you start to identify who's good. And it could be even everybody's good. But they're different levels of good, or they're good at other things. And so as an AE. Once you get to know an SE team you start to develop your go-to person or individuals for different reasons. So that's just a tendency that has just tended to happen. I could see a world where one on one could be really useful. Then you get into a really, you know, a more resounding cadence. Right, you get to that Batman and Robin. I say it, and it was in the chat, and you can really develop that kind of trusted partnership. I've never. I've never had the bounty of having that because they were. I've always been in a pool resource model. So, anyway, what resonates with me most is you get to know the team you get to know who's good at what. And then you got your go-to folks for different scenarios.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
That's great, Chris. How would you look at it?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
So before I answer your question, Nick. I'm inspired to share with you, to replay for you the words that I heard you use because I think it's important for us to be aware of the words that we use. Your question was, and I and I may be missing a word or 2, but your question was. How do you like to have yours? How do you like to use your pre-sales resources?
In a pooled model or a paired model? I think they're in the last part of the problem. And, by the way, this is industry-wide. We think of it as using re-sales resources instead of here's another way we could. Here's the way that we should be asking that question. What's best, what organizational structure is best to create an effective AE & SE relationship or an SE partner, or what's the best organization for the partnership between the account executive and sales engineers? A pulled model, a one-to-one model, a one-to-many model right? Because I think the more we start thinking about this as a partnership instead of resources to be used, it instantly begins to change the conversation. And, by the way, I've seen a few people say something about the ae parent-child, you know partnership. I there, there's something I'm inspired to share and I'll share. I'll also, think, now is a good time. I believe, in what I call the 51-49. Rule.
What's the 51 / 49 rule?
As sales engineers, I believe we deserve an equal sort of stake at the table when it comes to. You know how to approach the deal, how to approach the meeting, how to approach the conversation or the opportunity. But I give you Jamal the final vote because at the end of the day, you own the opportunity and it's really it's your head that's on the line more than mine. What's the 51, 49 rule? You give 51 of the vote. I get 49 I'm gonna tell you what I think. I'm gonna tell you what I believe I'm gonna. But at the end of the day, I'm following your lead because you own the opportunity and you are on the account that wasn't it
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Like a drum for me it does. I mean
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
This is related, but not exactly it. There's a huge difference. I read about this once, and I and I. Now I teach it. There's a considerable difference between responsibility and accountability.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Hmm.
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
It's huge, and it's subtle right? And if there was a difference between both and they are responsible for tasks within a deal. But at the end of the day, it's the a. Who is accountable to get it over the line because accountability means you're on the hook? Whether you're doing the tasks or not. You're on the hook for the outcome, not all the tasks.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
So that's how that came to mind as you were talking about that. And if I can build. If I could build on that, you know one of the things that I hear a lot about, you know here a lot when we talk about the AE. SC partnership is empathy, right? And, by the way, Nick, I gotta give you props, I think, in the actual title for this session. You called it the SE ae relationship. I don't think I've ever seen the SE put first, so you know I got it. I gotta give you props for that. But you know. I think the thing that is easy, particularly for essays to forget is the pressure that AEs feel and the pressures that AEs we. We just as an SE. Look, we're under. We have a lot of pressure. We've put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We're the guys, or you know, women who are out in front of the customer right spotlight on us, and you know the AEs looking at us, and the customers are asking tough questions.
We don't feel the pressure that the AEs do from management themselves, right? Maybe even, you know, back at home. I think we need in order to demonstrate empathy. As seen, we need to remember that they have a certain level. The AEs have a certain amount of pressure on them that we are spared. Now, in reverse. AEs can demonstrate empathy for us by respecting our time. Right? That's what some of the things that we value are. So again, this is this draws attention to the differences right? You want to respect AE's respect. The pressure they're under. You want to respect Esses respect their time.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Chris. I'm going to jump in because there's a lot of football chat going on in the comments. And so actually, what's being discussed is a quarterback and coach relationship. When you have one analogy, let me know if you need to queue you up. But about football, I think really pertains to this.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
You need to cue me up because I have so many football and sports analogies. I'm. I'm forgetting which one you're you're you referring to the Ae. Wants the Sc. To run their own routes. I'm so glad. I'm. So it's funny. I wrote that down because Jamal Jamal was saying earlier, there are some parts that Yes, he needs to do and some parts that the AEs need to do. And and and nick you, you hit you or you hit that ball out of the park. Yeah, as sees folks. Sometimes we need the ability to run our own routes. If the Ae. Has to tell us everything that we need to be doing or should be doing. Then we're not living up to our end of the agreement right now on the flip side, Jamal, the other thing that you said which I loved was sort of giving them. I even wrote these words down free rain right some sometimes. And look, I've been there before, as in as an ae. Sometimes we want to control the narrative and control everything that's going on in the opportunity, usually from a place of fear. We need to trust our people to run their own routes right. But as seen we do need to be able to run our own routes sometimes, and that means sometimes building technical champions, building relationships, etc. So if you don't understand American football running your own routes is just knowing where you to go on your own. So when the quarterback throws you the ball, you're in the right place at the right time.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Couple of great questions in the chat. I'm just gonna go down a rabbit hole real quick here because I think these are are are relevant to what we're talking about. Thoughts Jamal? I'd love to hear your feedback on this thought on how sales engineers can best deal with account executives that aren't consistently giving them enough information to be prepared for the demo. How do you handle that?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
What can the SE do? Okay. So what one idea is the AE. Either through the Sc manager or directly to the sc schedule You sometimes come in out of the blue. They schedule you for a demo, right, and it just shows up on your calendar. Nothing. And then you basic. You have you. You have the choice to accept it or not. Now what you could do is, you could say I'd love to accept this. I have the availability. But before I could accept it we got to know what was going on. Let's do a pre-call the week before 3 days before. Whatever it's just a matter of fact.
Part of your process. And so it's not asking too much. It's not looking cheeky. It's not being assumptive. It's a very natural and expected thing that may be to that may not be answering the question but to me. I don't I don't understand a world where I see them do it. I don't understand it. I don't understand the mentality of an AE that just shows up and do this because it's like it. It adds no value, and it totally misses the point of the selling opportunities within a demo. It is a demo, is not.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
It's almost misnamed.
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
You know. Doing it. That's interesting. Unpack that, please. When do you hear? If you know you, you if you just kind of fell off a log and heard the word demo demonstration, you take it a face Value is here. Here's a widget. It's got a top, and it's got a bottom, and you know. Very shallow. Not even really a conversation. But what really needs to take place in a demo? Is this it? It's a show. It's business analysis. It's a relationship-deepening mechanism. It has. There are so many layers to what you can achieve within a demo to just show products, features, and functions. Does this service to everybody in the room?
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Chris, before you chime in, I know you're ready and waiting. I have the same question, but I want to pivot it a bit. I want to pull this out of you. Why do SEs feel they need permission to take a stance? How can how would you ideally like to be empowered by your account, executive, so that you don't feel you're tiptoeing around?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Hmm. I think I think for starters, most esses we are people, please. We tend to be people pleasers. We don't want to disappoint anybody much less our sales counterparts. I think part of this has to do with seniority. If I'm. Relatively new to the company, or I'm relatively new to pre-sales, I may be far more reluctant to you know people you people like to use terms, push back. I personally don't like the term push back my preferred term is just don't be a pushover.
Which means you need to know when to stand your ground. That sounds like another T-shirt. You need a swag shop, by the way. I do have a swag shop, but I'm just not very good at promoting it. So thank you for saying something. But you know I I I think you know. And this just really gets I mean honestly, Nick, your question gets to the core.
I think of the difficulty that AEs, and as he has, and I tell this to all the sees that I work with. Here's what I know to be true about most of the AEs that I've ever worked with. They're gonna push until they find the limit as they should. It is their job to generate revenue to keep to help keep the business in, you know, in business, right? So we need to let them know sort of where the lines are and where the boundaries are, and let's. And I saw some of the things in the chat. Right, Jamal, put something on my calendar. Which sort of sight on the scene, really that what should my response be? I could get upset about it. I could take that personally right? I heard a great a. A. Great acronym the other day. Q. Tip - quit taking it personally right? Or I could call up I could. I could pick up the phone right and give Jamal a call and say, hey, Jamal, I saw you put a meeting on my calendar next week.
You know, as you well know I want to do nothing more than to help us close as much business as possible, and so if there's an opportunity for me to engage, I'm all in now. At the moment I don't really see many contexts. I'm I don't know if you've done any discoveries. So can we spend a few minutes talking about this? You know. What do? What do we know? Where are they? Will we have some time to do some discoveries, maybe at the beginning of the meeting? Let's have a conversation, but we tend to get. We tend to get emotionally worked up. We sort of jump to conclusions right, and then it just sort of spirals out of control. So I don't even know if I answered your question about where my mind went.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
No, you did. He did a very good job. But, Jamal, I'm gonna ask you this now because you've told me the expression. I this is from your mouth. We win as a team, but you lose as an ae. So when you're talking about half a 1 million dollars of commission in the balance. How do you trust that's very difficult to trust when you're talking about half a 1 million dollars?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
Yeah, you're holding on you, you're white-knuckling a lot, and unless you've been around unless you've lost more than you want, and you know what the odds are. You? Do you play the game, anyway? So what's really the question, how how do you trust when the stakes are high? Is that the question?
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Yes.
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
What comes to mind is, your trust because you've been rowing together in the same boat for the whole journey. If you're just kind of parachuting people in. How can you trust somebody? You have yet to really work with me deeply. How how can you trust that they'll know their routes or they know the landscape? You know, a journey’s journey. Journeys are for the company of friends, right? They're not for individuals, you know the whole idea of a lone wolf. Rep. They certainly exist, but I don't know that they do everything by themselves. They might have their own ideas. Nut even lots of loan wolf reps that I know still know how to leverage the team in the right way. So for me, trust comes through the experience and kind of, you know, tribal knowledge on every deal, and when you've got I mean. I could show you pictures of not only my SE team but my executive team sitting in a conference room on a Sunday all day preparing for the last big executive demo on Monday and it's like the third time that we've done this over 3 months. That's trust. When when you're in the trenches. When you're in the the foxhole to that level, you! You know what everybody's good at. You know what they're not good at, and you've divided out the roles, and you support each other throughout this kind of shared responsibility.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Of course, you can, can, I? Can, I? I'm, inspired. I mean, I'm inspired to share this story. And I think all these lines up with what you're talking about when I first broke into pre-sales, and anybody who's heard me talk before probably has probably heard me say I was. I was 15 years in it, consulting enterprise, architecture, and consulting profession before I got my first sales job as a pre-sales engineer. And look I was a self-proclaimed expert in my field, and I went to work for the software vendor, with whom I was an expert in, you know, in their platform. And I attended my first sales kick-off. I have probably been with the company for 4 or 5 months. I tended my first sales kickoff in Dublin. And at 1 point, you know. Probably the first night there was sort of a typical sort of reception. And there was a group of people who were, I could tell that was like the inner circle, and this company had 4 or 5 different product lines. This was the inner circle of the product line that I was as an expert, a specialist. In right. There were some product, managers, and product marketing and some of the lead account executives and a few sales engineers, and probably 1012 people sitting around having a beer laughing, and I sort of felt like I was on the outside looking in. And I had gotten to know the gentleman who ran professional services globally, and he and I were chatting, and I sort of pulled him aside at 1 point I'm like, what does it take to sort of get in the inner circle?
And he's from New York, You know I had this sort of rough accent, and he said. You want to know the truth, Chris. You gotta prove yourself. You gotta earn it. And I was like, I get it, and I won't say his name, but I was like I get it, and I a. From that moment on I was. I was determined to prove that I that I had the chops that I could do, that I could do the job. And to me you ask about trust, just doesn't happen overnight. Right, it’s both trusts need to be extended, but it also needs to be earned, and in both directions. So anyway.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Can I just say you guys need your own show together? Okay, I'm gonna go through some quick hits here. So just some quick answers on this, because there are a lot of great questions. I still got more to go through. We could have done a lot longer on this session today. Jamal, real quick should SE and an AE report and roll up to the same leader?
Should an SE and AE Report & Roll Up to the Same Leader?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
Yes.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Chris?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
I mean it depends on what level we're to. If, should they both roll up to the CRO. Yes. Below the CRO. I think that's where it splits my opinion.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Interesting. Casper's got a great question, Chris, when you start as a sales engineer in a new industry. So you're on in the experience. How do you develop that cruise ship IQ? How do you become a technical act? Becoming a technical expert only gets you so far.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
So we could spend 45 min on this question. But I'm gonna respond to this. What? When I look at the sale, skills of a sales engineer, I break them into 3 categories, the quote, technical skills or product skills, or what have you people, skills and sales skills? So if you've joined this new company, and you've, you've spent 5 or 10 years in pre-sales. You've got the sales skills of people, skills, and you're just learning. You need to double down on the technology. Learn there everything there is to learn right. But if you don't have the technical skills or the sales skills, I mean look to be fair. I mean that that that that's a pretty, you know, long road. Ho! But to me it's practice it's part of shadowing people to learn, and you know you. You've got to develop. Those are the 3 skills you've got to develop, so I don't know if that's helpful or not. Whoever asked that give me a call or come out to reach me out, reach out to me after the fact.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
As well as Demostack. This is great info for you. This is the type of content we're putting out on the demo stack LinkedIn page all the time. So definitely check that out. And we have a bunch of questions about enterprise sales. We're gonna skip those just for the sake of time and go back to the main topic. But I have set in on one of Jamal's sessions at the Enterprise Sellers community one of the most dynamic and interesting. I walked in there as someone who sold this whole life, and I walked out, looking at sales in a different way after one session. So if you have enterprise sellers on your team highly suggest, you check out Jamal, and also I have almost everything I've learned about free sales this year. A lot of it has come from Chris White and I've sat in on his workshops and his boot camps, and if you have a chance definitely. Spend some time with Chris because he does get deep, and we're going high-level today, just for the sake of time. But a couple of more quick questions, gentlemen.
What happens, Jamal? I'm the AE, and my SE is getting in the technical weeds. How do I pull them out?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
I mean you. You gotta use some finesse sometimes. It's as simple as asking the question, either asking a question, either of the Se. Because they gotta. They gotta stop the diet tribe, turn to you and answer the question. I sometimes I'll say, hey, Joe is this probably a good time to ask the customer this question, and then I'll ask the question which starts to redirect the conversation toward wherever it needs to go back to the business, back to the pain. Get out of the product, whatever. What I don't want to do is make the SE look bad. Oh, would you please stop going so deep? This is how you know, and make fun of it, or in any way belittle what's going on that doesn't help anybody. It's got to be. You gotta deal with, you know integrity, respect, and finesse because you are. You are creating a redirect. But sometimes I need to be redirected to the right because the AE could just go off in whatever direction sometimes feeling that they need to look like the expert, so they do a lot of talking rather than listening. And that's that. That's also a bad move, and the essay can play just as much of a role to redirect, AE at the same level of finesse and respect.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Very well, said Chris. Did you want to follow up on that quickly?
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
I mean the 2 thoughts: first, the SE. As we need to have situations, situational awareness folks like we need to be aware of when we're going deep, and if we feel ourselves going deep, pause ourselves, actually, Jamal, before I go any further, is this the right level of granularity? Or should you know, should we bring it back up a level? And then the only other thought, I get this. I get this all the time. What do I do as an ess, what do I do? If my ae says something that maybe is a little bit outside the lines of reality, I always say, if it's harmless, let it be, and have that conversation after the fact to your point, you never throw your ae under the bus. But if it's potentially misleading and detrimental to the customer. We gotta say something, so I'll just say something like this. Actually, folks, before we go on. What Jamal just said is right under certain circumstances, but in your case, there might be some other, you know, nuances that are worth mentioning, and then setting the record straight.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
Really good! That was great, Chris. That's very impressive. Real quick, housekeeping note. We ran a post. A demo sat the other day asking AEs, Who's your favorite sc you ever worked with? We ran a contest, and we're happy downset. Austin Stone of Routable has one, a $200 gift card for that so? Congratulations to you, Mr. Stone. Guys, I'm gonna have maybe one more quickfire question here for you. Actually, I think this is important. But give me quick answers.
Do we need to storyboard our stories for it as a team? So do we need to be literally crafting this narrative together, Jamal, to you first?
Jamal Reimer - Author of Mega Deal Secrets:
I mean it. It depends on the level of importance of the demo. If it's a critical demo absolutely falls in line with the whole story of the Broadway show. We do practices. Then we do rehearsals. Then we do dress rehearsals, right? So when it's a must-win meeting. We go down to the level of scripting. It's not like we read scripts, but we talk about okay, who's going to speak on this slide? And what are they actually going to say? And what are they not going to say? How long are we going to let it sit on this slide? How many topics are we going to cover on this slide? Is it a backdrop slide, or are we actually going to do stuff on it? All the way through the deck and the demo.
Nick Capozzi - Head of Storytelling at Demostack:
You know what, Chris, I'd love to let you answer this, but we're out of time. So I'm gonna suggest your answer should be a post on Linkedin tomorrow, which is why you should be following Chris White from tech sales, advisors, and Jamal Rhymer from Enterprise Sellers Community. Gentlemen, this was such a pleasure. If you are still with us. Well, you are because everyone is still here. We're about to go into the next session, which is another very exciting one. We'll see over there in a minute, gentlemen. Thank you very much for your time.
Chris White - Founder of Tech Sales Advisors:
Thanks for having me. See all!
